Or if you prefer a non-goat namesake, we can name something else after you. We have a bunch of chicks due to hatch at any moment, the tractor already has a name but my truck doesn’t, our lead sheep matriarch (very confident, very bold and in your face if you mess with her flock) doesn’t have a name except “hey-knock-it-off!” when she gets too pushy. One of our mouser kitties doesn’t have a name yet, if you like kitties. Then again, for the right price, heck you could become the namesake for whatever you want. A grain combine named “Sharon”……… I’d have someone paint that on the side with really nice lettering. Not everyone gets to say they have a combine named after them. Or we could just name the combine “Generosity”. I sorta like that idea. That would carry with it the spiritual requirement that we donate part of every harvest with that machine. Say, donate it to the food bank or something. But yea, I could work with that idea. Our own spin on the tithing that DR has talked about. We already donate in various ways, but that idea just has a nice ring to it.
Seriously, I know there are folks out there who need it more than we do so by all means send it where it’s truly needed. But it was fun to think about just for that brief moment. Just think, Sharon, we’d be so honored, we’d name a goat after you! Not everyone is so blessed as to have a goat named after them..
They are called an attractive nuisance. You can have them, but you better have extra coverage for them. There are lots of little ins and outs on home owners insurance many folks don’t know about. Like if you own over 10 acres, even if you aren’t farming on it you have to have a farm policy. Got cattle or horses? Extra policy in case they get out on the road and cause a wreck. Where water is concerned you are covered on what comes down, but not what comes up unless you have flood insurance. List goes on and on. That’s why everyone should review their policies periodically because the rules change often.
– I’d love to take the money going towards our debt snowball (when that’s done of course) and just give it to random people. There is a woman at work who I know is struggling so would love to help — but then I feel like I KNOW she doesn’t manage the money she does have well, so any money I gave her would just get misused. But to just be able to randomly give her a $50 gas card….
Or, for my single, social worker sister, to just call up her mortgage company and make a month’s payment for her — or sponsor a child in Africa in her name anonymously.
There is a downside and I’ll present it and see how we can counter it. The king pins (or king pimps) “train” people to blame themselves. This is also the kind of thing people do in abusive marriages. If a husband is abusive, he blames it on his wife (“You made me hit you. You know when supper is late I get angry and have to hit someone. It’s your fault!”). In this case, they know most people will fail, so they teach them to blame themselves. (“This is the greatest opportunity ever and if it’s not working, then you’re not working hard enough!”)
Many people will say something like, “I’ve been in 5 years, but it just hasn’t worked for me because I haven’t worked hard enough.”
One possible counter is to ask people what they have done. If you’re there with someone, start with that. Build up a base of this person talking about how good they are at it, how hard they’ve worked, at the sacrifices they’ve made, then, when they are talking about all that and how hard they’ve worked, ask how long they’ve been in.
That builds up an image of years of work and not making it, as opposed to allowing them to say, “I just didn’t work hard enough.”
Have him ask the people around him how long they have been in “the business”. I am sure a lot of them have been in for years. Why aren’t they millionaires yet? It is a 3-5 year plan right? Anybody that has been in it for 3+ years should be stinking rich. Why are they still in the stands at the meetings and not on the stage telling their stories?
This part is for the person that has a friend in more-crap America. I just don’t talk to the person about the company and every once in awhile ask how it is going. She always says it is going ok, but I never see her using any of the products anymore so I do not really think she is totally plugged in. I have never gone to one of their meetings but I am sure it is pretty much the same as any of the other ones. But I would like to go to one sometime just to see for myself if it is the same. I have only been to the “Invest tools” conference and it was a joke. I left in the beginning of the thing because I could see it was garbage. I went at the time because I was laid off and my friend wanted to go.
I didn’t really want to go but you do things for friends. So I ended up walking to the mall and shopped. It was much more fun then listening to those blow-hards. If these products are so great why are they giving the secrets away?
Oops I am babbling again. If there are any more more-crap America stories I would love to hear them. Also do they have the same kind MO’s?
and that you will find very hard to accept: this has nothing to do with facts. There is nothing you can tell your friend or show your friend that will prove he’s in a fraudulent organization.
Accept that now and you can find ways to deal with this. If you don’t accept it, you will hurt any efforts you make to deal with your friend.
When he went to the very first open meeting (or any other meeting), he was told, “When you tell people about this, they’ll say it can’t work. Do you want to know why? Because they are jealous and they want to steal your success!” That may seem like a small statement, but it “vaccinates” them against anything you say.
Of course, you’re saying, “But he’s my FRIEND. He knows I wouldn’t want to do that.” Partially true. They are dangling a multi-million dollar golden egg in front of him. If he believes you, then he has to deal with working a 9-5 job until retirement (or whatever work he does). If he believes them, then he “knows” he will be wealthier than he can dream of in just a few short years and will live a life of leisure.
It’s not about whether he can trust you, it’s about whether he wants to believe you or them. Friend vs. everlasting wealth. He’s been hooked.
My ex gf was, literally, a genius. I showed her numbers and facts and brought of things that, by logic proved to her that the only way they were making money was by fraud and she was unwilling to believe it.
She hated her job and hated the idea of having to earn a living for the rest of her life and wanted to believe that she had found the freedom they promised. The facts didn’t matter because she didn’t want to believe them. She wanted to believe the people promising her wealth.
If you present facts that don’t agree with your friend’s brainwashed beliefs (and I don’t use the word brainwashed lightly here, it IS brainwashing), then you will be labelled as “negative” and once you’re labelled that way, everything you say is suspect.
Okay, I’ve run on about that and by now you’re depressed after reading it, but it’s the truth, it’s the way drones think when they’re in a group like this, and it’s easier to face it from the start than to try to ignore it.
Now, going from there, the current thinking is that questions help. The idea is to ask a question, knowing you won’t get an answer. You’ll get a reply. Probe with more questions. The point is to get your friend to THINK through this stuff and to begin to see the contradictions.
Forgive me for taking on an icon like this, but it would be like the process of a kid learning that Santa Claus does not visit every kid over the course of one night. Kids want to believe there is someone kind who will help them and do good things for them and love them unconditionally. They have strong emotional reasons for believing in Santa Claus. Then people say there is no Saint Nick. they don’t want to hear it and won’t believe it. Then they get old enough to see just how big the world is and to wonder how he fits down the chimney.
If you tell a kid these things, they won’t believe it and don’t want to believe it, but if the kid has to start dealing with questions like that, then eventually the facts behind the answers win out.
You are dealing with a 4 year old who does not understand your logic, cannot follow your reasoning, and knows if what you say is true, there is no Santa Claus.
That’s why questions help.
Example: They don’t make money off the conventions.
Question: But there’s 6,000 people paying $100 each. How much is that? That’s $600,000. Isn’t that a lot?
Okay, it’s not that easy. It’d take 3-4 questions to get to that last one and to “set up” your friend so they are ready to hear that question. Then you can ask, “If the coliseum costs $25,000, where does the rest of the money go?” (I checked on coliseums, that’s how I have that figure.)
This is an oversimplification, but the point is to keep probing with questions. You know your friend, we don’t. You will have to get a sense of how far you can push before you have to let up.
Facts won’t help directly. However, knowing facts will help you figure out what questions to ask, so the facts are important, but if presented simply, can push the person in the other direction.
If you go to the “links” section of this forum, you can find MOUNTAINS of cold, hard facts. The “files” section includes outstanding stories of those who’ve been successful in getting a friend/relative out of Quixtar and the predatory Motivational Organizations that are peripheral to Quixtar/Amway.
He and I differ in opinion on this and I can’t make him see that he may be getting himself into something that could end up hurting him financially as well as personally(family). Does anyone have personal experiences that I could relay to him that might help?
He is a very persistent person and it would take hardcore evidence for him to give this up. I just don’t want to see him get hurt as I have a ton of respect for him! Thanks for anything you can provide.
He became a quad and remained in a wheelchair and had numerous health issues until his passing 5 yrs later. The parent said had she known it was such a risk, she never would have allowed it.
I think most people I know, haven’t run it by their insurance co, but if someone got hurt….Diving boards are in the same category here—changed after I moved here, so I was grandfathered in, but when I did the pool remodel, I removed it–If I was to sell the house, the buyers couldn’t get insurance on the house